Episode 105 – Flying With Floyd

Guest Floyd S. Werner, Jr. is a Baltimore City Police Helicopter Pilot who also flew AH-1 Cobras in Desert Storm and Bosnia, and OH-58D Kiowa Warriors in Bosnia. He is known for crashing the last Cobra in Europe in 1994 (engine failure on take off – awarded the prestigious Broken Wing Award) and holds the distinction of flying the last Cobra out of Europe to the Royal Military Academy of Science in England. Floyd is also an avid modeler, authored OH-58D Kiowa Warrior, Walkaround No. 50, and runs Werner’s Wings, a site for aftermarket resins and decals.

The week’s aviation news:

Be sure to visit us at AirVenture 2010, Tuesday, July 27, 4:00pm at Pavillion 6 North of the Control Tower. You might become an Airplane Geek for the Day!

Follow the @AirplaneGeeks on Twitter and on Facebook, send us email at thegeeks@airplanegeeks.com, or leave a message on our listener line: (361) GEEKS01.

Opening and closing music is provided by Brother Love from the Album Of The Year CD. You can find his great music at http://www.brotherloverocks.com/.

Werner's Wings

15 thoughts on “Episode 105 – Flying With Floyd

  1. Max Flight

    [This from Pieter…]

    Just wanted to say how much I have laughed recently following some of the old Geeks podcasts. I am working my way through some of the early episodes I had missed and In Episode 28 when you said that the only reason that you thought France existed was to grow coconuts for biofeuls, I could not stop laughing. (Apart of course from totally agreeing).

    Then you and Courtney tap dancing around (E31) the issue of overweight passengers and the issue of whether they could sit in a single seat was hilarious. Your guests (Travel Mama’s) were serious about it but I know both of you wanted to crack (excuse the pun) more jokes but had to remain serious.

    However I think the one that really made me laugh was a more recent episode (E 98 I think) when Dan did the German impression about Lufthansa. I was listening on the train and I almost wet myself, the other passengers looking at me with my Ipod on, wondering what I was listening to!

    It begs the question that maybe one of the things you can have in your back pocket when you need a break from recording is to have a Favourite Moments Episode or, you could always put it out to the listeners on the website to vote for their favourite Airplane Geeks moments!

    Keep up the good work. Listening has revitalised my interest in aviation and for the first time in 28 years I am off the Farnborough Airshow in two weeks time. I will have my trusty Ipod with a few back issues of the Geeks to listen to as I wander around. I cannot wait.

    Best regards, Pieter

  2. Max Flight

    [Richard writes…]

    I love listening to the podcast here in the UK and whilst I am on the road. I actually started listening to it whilst in Australia earlier on this year.

    I am coming over to the States during the summer, starting off in Seattle (naturally going to Boeing Field) then doing the west coast before travelling along the east coast. My question is what would be your reccomendations to see or visit “aircraft” related sites musems or showsalong the way?

    Thanks for putting the show together each week



  3. Max Flight

    Richard: My top aviation sites to visit are:

    1. Pima Air Museum in Arizona. About a thousand aircraft, and right across the street from the airplane grave yard.
    2. USAF Museum in Dayton. LOTS of military airplanes.
    3. Smithsonian Air and Space Museum in DC and at Dulles airport.

    (Anybody else have suggestions?)

    Thanks for listening to the podcast, and have a great trip!


  4. Max Flight

    Hi Geeks,
    I just listened to episode 105, Actually the captain of a helicopter sits in the left seat in a Bell 47, Enstrom, MD 369 and 269 series helicopters, the Bell 206 and R22 you sit in the right seat

    They sit in the middle in a Kawasaki or Bell KH4 and 3 pax sit behind the pilot
    It probably has to with C of G issues. Depending what machine it is, as you can see the pilot (Captain) can sit in a different seat. In the Sky crane apparently the pilot in command sits behind the front pilot depending on the operation they are doing.

    Alex from Sunny China

  5. tqe | Adam

    Re: Aeroflot and what it flys to the US. I’m pretty sure that Aeroflot doesn’t fly its IL-96’s to the US. To JFK it flies 767s and A330-300s. LA also gets Airbuses, and DC gets a 767.

  6. Max Flight

    [Received this email from Brandon…]

    Hey guys just found out about your podcast from a friend and downloaded the last 20 episodes that were on iTunes. Going through so far I love this show and look forward to listening to all of them. I can’t put my iPod down at this point lol but I had a couple of comments going back to episodes 85 and I think 86 regarding the body scanners and some info for Dan on Allegiant.

    First regarding the the body scanners my only big concern with it is what is the radiation that it uses? I suffer from a disease called Crohns and have had to do a few CT scans. But they say that you can only do about 7 before you run a risk of having your chances of cancer going up. So with me that already has a few I was wondering about how radition goes with it and if you might have anymore info on it.

    The next topic was about Allegiant. I work for a competing airline (QX). On the topic of the 757 it was mentioned that the runway up in BLI would not be long enough to accomedate these aircraft. This is actually not totally true. For the last 6 months BLI has been doing runway work to improve it. It comes with the closure of the BLI international airport in September since they only have a single runway and working on extending it. This is causing the cancellation of all flights during the month for AS/QX and Allegiant. So in another few months the runway up there will be long enought to accomedate the 757’s going to Hawaii. Hope that the info helps out.

    Also wondering if you guys were looking for a photographer possibly? I am based in Seattle but travel around the country for air shows and other airports for airline traffic. I cover events like Red Flag and what not. But i would be more then happy to possibly help the team out with some pictures for the site and what not. To check out my work I post it on flickr.


  7. Max Flight

    Brandon: Thanks for writing!

    The press has reported in the past that those scanners use very low levels of radiation – too low to worry about. Now, there are some skeptics out there who question that. Personally, I’d like to hope the Government keeps an eye on the manufacturer and we don’t have anything to worry about. But if you are concerned, you can decline the trip through the scanner and opt instead for a pat down. At least for now.

    Thanks for the BLI runway update. Also, we’re always looking for good photos for the blog posts, so maybe we’ll come asking you for permission in the future!

    I’m glad you found us and hope you enjoy those 20 episodes!


  8. Max Flight

    [Alex comes back with more on helicopter POC positions…]

    I found a WEB site that can give you some detail about why helicopters are flown from the right seat it is http://www.aviastar.org/theory/bell-407/cockpit.html

    Actually they say it is to do with stability problems but I would like to say I think it has more to do with C of G limits as it might have something to do with how the rotor mast is mounted ie rigged

    Bell 47 left seat Bell 407 right seat 206 right seat etc Hughes 369 left seat


  9. Max Flight

    [Brian sent this. You may have to be a long time listener to fully appreciate the context…]


    This has absolutely nothing to do with aviation but I recently saw something that made me think of David mentioning rainbows and unicorns. Have a look at the April Fools imaginary product that Thinkgeek offered up this year:


    Interestingly I never knew where the rainbows came from until I noticed the diagram at the bottom of the ad which makes it clear where that particular “cut” is located. Even more funny is that they actually received a cease and desist complaint regarding the ad.

    Anyway, thanks for the entertaining show every week. I have been listening for 4 or 5 months and enjoy it very much.

    Anyway, thanks for the entertaining show every week. I have been
    listening for 4 or 5 months and enjoy it very much.


  10. Max Flight

    [A great note from Huss…]

    Hey guys its Huss here one of your I’m sure many listeners over here in the UK. It’s a privilege to talk to you, I love the show and I look forward to it every week. I only stared listening around December 09 after I went out online searching for an aviation podcast, I found the Airplane Geeks and have not looked back!

    I’m an Aeronautical engineering Student at the University of Bristol, and I’m currently on an internship with a well known British aero engine manufacturer (you can guess who). I love aviation and I love this industry, I have done so all my life. I love it even more the more I learn about it in the course of my degree and job. I can say that now because the academic year and my exams are over, but during the semester on a dark cold evening trying to solve an aerodynamics example sheet, it can seem a little intense. In fact, it was trying to put off doing an aerodynamics lab report that led me to the podcast!

    Seriously though, the podcast really gives a good roundup of what‘s going on at the moment in aviation and I like listening to your discussions on the stories. My personal favourite stories are anything to do with the KCX tanker. The guests are always great too, after listening to the show with Dave Pascoe I must have been on JFK tower on liveATC.net for at least 1 hour.

    I’m getting pretty excited as it’s the start of the air show season soon. I’ll be going to Farnborough for the first time this year and I’m looking forward to it so much. Also Oshkosh is definitely on my list for the future after hearing you all talking about it recently.

    Special mention goes to Boy Wonder AKA Dan. I think you and I are the same age, I have just turned 20. Also we will both be graduating in 2012 if all goes well. I visited your blog after the first episode I listened to and I was very impressed. I thought how could this guy be the same age as me!? I have attempted to write an aviation blog, I have got plenty to say but I just can’t seem to convey it in words as well as you, David, Rob and Max can. I guess I just need more practice. However Dan, I’m going to take opportunity to ban you from performing any sort of structural test whatsoever on anything. I have a model of a BA 777-200LR which I think that, even though you are in D.C. you are too close to it. Please leave the ultimate loading tests to me.

    Congratulations on 100+ plus shows, may there be many more. Keep up the great work!

    Bristol UK, the home of British Aviation

    P.S. Not sure if you recall Max, but I sent you a tweet not too long back asking about the show as @HUSSTECH . Just wanted to say thanks for the reply.


  11. Steve Finkelman

    Just my two cents worth (Canadian) about why a helicopter pilot sits in the right seat.
    I just completed a one year course leading to a Canadian Air Maintenance Engineers Structure’s licence ( part of what in US is the A&P licence.
    In helicopter theory we were told that the seating has to do with the fact that the helicopter rotor blade turns counter-clockwise, causing the torque in the opposite direction of clock-wise. It is the tail rotor that holds the craft against the torque. The right seat position is so that in the event of a tail rotor failure, the pilot can see out the cockpit when he is swinging in the clockwise direction.
    However, I looked at both the Jeppeson and and Avotek texts and could not find this anywhere in either of them.
    So, I can’t quote any better reference than that.

    Steve Finkelman
    ercoupe driver

  12. maxflight Post author

    I asked Igor Sikorsky III for this thoughts on the topic of helicopter pilots in the right seat. He emailed this to me:

    …great question about the pilot placement. It comes up from time to time. I think I am right in the response here.

    My grandfather and his engineers had to work this problem out from scratch. There are four controls which require constant manipulation during many phases of helicopter flight: rudder, cyclic pitch, collective pitch and power. The rudder is with the foot pedals. The cyclic is with the stick. Both are very similar to airplane controls, at least for cruise flight. The collective lever and the throttle remain and were combined in one lever. The pilots arm operates the collective, and the pilots wrist operates the power.

    I believe, and will check, that it was deemed better for the pilot to operate the stick with the right hand, as most people are right handed. This might have been my grandfather’s preference. This left the LEFT arm for the collective. The early aircraft had only a single collective lever, which of course had to be located in between the seats for dual access. This made the pilot use the right seat, if he wanted to use the stick in the right hand.

    That’s I think the explanation, but will clarify it with my uncle, who will know for sure.

    Hope to see you back here for another Sikorsky Weekend, or anytime. Things pretty much don’t change here, which means they get better and better all the time!

    Our best to you, from Igor, Karen, and MOXIE!!

    Igor & Karen Sikorsky
    ><((((('> http://www.BRADFORDCAMPS.com <')))))>< http://www.bradfordcamps.com/

    Max again. The Bradford Camp is a sporting camp in the North Maine Woods run by Karen and Igor. Once a year they hold a “Sikorsky Weekend” which is devoted to the rich history of Igor Sikorsky. It’s filled with information, rare films, and memorabilia from the family. The Camp is a WONDERFUL way to spend a vacation, and the special Weekend is a real treat for aviation geeks. Take it from me.

  13. Mr Sharp

    If Wikileaks was simply releasing things like renowned video of civilians in the van being shot to awaken some dialogue, I might think it’s fine. But outing informants? That is reckless endangerment of people’s lives. What a piece of shit.

  14. Al Gardiner

    Wanted to offer my recommendation for a can’t miss aviation museum – The National Museum of Naval Aviation in Pensacola, FL.

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